1. It's funny because I started learning C at 13, and I put that I "started programming over 10 years ago" on my resume. I did end up getting hired, fortunately, but likely only because I was referred...

  2. Yeah, my company has been “trying” to find a much needed addition to our team for like 8 months and has been scratching their heads since nobody has applied.

  3. That means they are not actually trying to find anybody. They will just keep looking, while your smaller (cheeper) team keeps on doing more work. That's some strategic cost saving. Some C-Suit probably got bonus for that

  4. Make it 3+ years for the last 2 companies I worked for. They are having constantly an open position.

  5. Rephrased: "There's no shortage on developers. You just can't find any when you offer 20% under the competitive wage."

  6. Companies like Amazon/Google/Microsoft cry constantly that there is a developer shortage, then hire non-americans on visa and

  7. In my experience, for the companies where I want to work cause they seem really professional with a propper team and process where I might learn a lot. They don't hire me for lack of experience or offer such a low wage where I don't even know how to respond to. While these other companies that are looking for "THE IT GUY" pay 30-40% more.

  8. Y’all are taking this post the wrong way. OP’s meme isn’t that there’s an actual shortage lowering wages. It’s that companies aren’t paying devs enough, so when they can’t find candidates to accept low paying jobs, they claim there is a “shortage” of devs

  9. My friend's development team he manages all left for higher paying jobs. At least in the UK there seems to be a change in the market. Companies are getting more competitive in salaries.

  10. My company is looking for an engineer. The last 5 people I interviewed all said they had 5-10 years experience and wrote code in their current positions. We ask a pretty basic coding question to make sure people aren't fabricating their abilities. Turns out, none of them could write a function that gets the average of integers in an array. I'd say it's pretty hard to find good developers.

  11. I recently interviewed for a senior dev position. Part of the interview was hand coding a loop that calculated the factorial of a specific number, and one that did the Fibonacci sequence to a certain number, both in under 5min. My Fibonacci loop had an off by one error, and I was really worried until the interviewer told me most people cant even write the loop in the first place. I was shocked. Got the job though and the pay is real nice.

  12. I thought you were going to describe some obscure problem. I don't understand how it's possible to write for 10 years (or really, any length of time longer than a few weeks) and not understand how a loop works.

  13. We literally ask people to write FizzBuzz in interviews and some can't do it or take extremely long to do it (like 30 minutes WITH help). Hard to swallow pills: "there are a lot of bad programmers in the industry, and lots of them make more money than decent ones".

  14. I went from 85k to 210k over the last 1.5 years by jumping to a bay area company that had to start hiring remote devs during covid. A guy on my team with the same level just jumped for $230k + 30k stock. Currently looking to jump again to something closer to $250-300k TC.

  15. Basically, just like fast food places that claim "nobody wants to work anymore", you'll find the only ones crying about labor are those who refuse to meet the market rates. The companies that are paying market rate aren't complaining about not having enough talent.

  16. yes. but if you manage to oversaturate the market, it will drive down the cost of individual developers.

  17. I am a senior software developer that started my current job last September. The market is super super hot, companies are willing to pay significantly more than 2 years ago. It is not easy to find decent developers

  18. There is definitely a shortage of good developers. Our company pays really good wages and offers interesting projects and it’s still difficult to find new developers. I am a senior developer and constantly flooded by good job opportunities from my network. A former colleague and good friend already offered me to join his team at even a higher pay (around 20-30% more than my already high pay) and I am seriously considering switching to a new job after summer.

  19. There is a surplus of junior developers looking to grow their skills, but all the job postings think a junior should have 2-3 years of experience.

  20. The market is so hot right now that no experienced senior developers apply to jobs, you have to source them through LinkedIn. Because it's more effort there is a shortage of good recruiters. Also what we have noticed that companies tend to lower the requirements, because they cannot find strong candidates. So essentially they hire mid developers (2-3 years of experience, average tech and communication skills) into senior roles. Who used to be a senior now applies to staff/principal/tech lead role.

  21. Ive been through that. I switched job 2 times last year raising my wage almost 4x and i thought finally - im in top 5% in my country IT!

  22. I am getting paid peanuts but otherwise it's sooo comfy job. Mainly because I can choose my own hours. Do stuff whenever I want as long as they get done by X date.

  23. Not developers, workers. Companies are finally learning that the labor market can work like any other market, and when suppliers expect more money you pay it or you don’t get supply

  24. The problem with my company finding good developers in addition to not providing competitive wages or benefits is that they refuse to budge on their stubborn WFH policy. They're insistent on a 4:1 Office-WFH schedule for everyone in the company regardless of their function or capability. Our CEO hasn't really given an acceptable answer as to why other than the usual "We talked to other CEOs in the area" fluff. Ironically, they're having such a hard time finding good people and losing existing people that they've been having to hire people who live out of state and have to work fully remote.

  25. This one hurts. I was replaced by two juniors that cost less than my original salary. Eventually, those juniors will have experience. Hopefully they ask for more money :)

  26. The ENTIRE "No one wants to work" byline is only there to paint Anyone looking for a living wage in a world where you need three jobs to afford rent as "Lazy, feckless, and greedy".

  27. There is absolutely a shortage of “good” developers. And by good I mean developers possessing the ability to read, understand, and write basic code in their chosen language.

  28. Nah that’s just what they tell you to make you feel all special and valued. Programming isn’t some high quality skill that can only be learned by some elite few, companies just need to be willing to invest more in new employees and develop better management criteria.

  29. Yeah many companies pay terribly but there really is a shortage of competent developers. When I was web dev manager at my last employer I had to interview potential team members and 99% of people that apply are copy and paste "developers" who don't know anything.

  30. I will express the unpopular opinion that there is a gap between the level of developers companies need and the overall industry skill level. The only way to close the gap is work on your skills and ask a higher wage in your new role. Big companies pay more. Smaller companies have to pay more or lower their expectations.

  31. one is funded by the government and one is funded by companies who profit immensely off the developers.

  32. Yeah. I don’t understand what this guy is on about. If you’re underpaid while the company is claiming a shortage, you are terrible at bargaining.

  33. The act of "fixing" such a shortage would then lower wages, or at least lock them in place for a long ass time while inflation wears them away then.

  34. I believe good developers are actually rare (not one myself) and in shortage, but this does not contradict the issue of companies generally underpaying workers.

  35. How would you even cause a shortage of developers? What happened to the ones that have been around for the last 20+ years making it a fairly competitive field?

  36. I recently applied for a Junior Dev role (recent bootcamp grad). I had the interview which went well enough, then a few days later I got a rejection email saying “we are looking for someone with a little but more experience”.

  37. Put yourself in the shoes of the guy that owns the company, or even the manager. If he hires you, he needs to invest months teaching you how to write proper code. Your productivity is going to be very low during the first months. There is nothing wrong with it, of course, but you gotta understand his point.

  38. They want to lower wages, and only hire the one professional with the exact right skill set which 3 people in the world have.

  39. Well if you think about it, if there were more developers, they could lower the wages. So there is a developer shortage from their point of view.

  40. Not sure it its American developer wages that are too high or the other way around (as a European they seem completely outlandish). But FAANG companies have been establishing offices all over Europe in order to save on developer costs.

  41. If there’s a shortage of developers, prices would naturally rise, not fall. They’re either lying or they’re lying.

  42. I’m confused. Shortages would lead to higher wages. I live in a town with a shortage of plumbers so the good ones can charge whatever they want because they know you have few options.

  43. Actually working with someone who’s been coding for a decade more than I have, the problem is that I have the degree and he doesn’t but we’re on the exact same pay, while I feel like I’ve just shortcut him by going to college.

  44. I think this is what we are going to start seeing pretty soon. That is, businesses are "tightening belts"/not hiring.

  45. There's a weirdly widespread belief that the labor market somehow works differently than any other market. All markets have to be priced competitively. If not, they just look ridiculous when they complain.

  46. Get rid of the coding interviews and they will get developers. I got into my current position without one.

  47. It's kind of ironic that tech is one of the few industries right now with lots of high paying jobs being created still. Try working in any manual labor industry right now, construction work is damn near years behind in my area because contracting companies continue to refuse wage increases.

  48. Well i dont know how shortage of developers relates to lower wages. Its exactly the opposite cause if there is shortage then wages rises. Its simple supply and demand principle.

  49. If there's a shortage wouldn't they have to pay you more as your job is harder to find people to do it. Maybe you just got it backwards I don't know.

  50. False, there is a shortage of good developers and not boot camp coders/self learners. People are looking for engineers, people with degrees

  51. this is just saying stuff. Like there is legitimately a shortage of developers. Developers are paid fairly high wages as well in general. Not all of them of course. but this is bullshit.

  52. I mean if you want to do 5 jobs, be on call ALWAYS, and get ignored about issues , all while being underpaid. (BUT THERE IS A PING PONG TABLE) then there are plenty of positions open…

  53. Senior Dev wages are over the roof. Be once in your life in a managing position, then come back to me and let me know what do you think of the wages. They are absolutely insane right now.

  54. There is no such thing as a labor shortage, only employers looking to pay below market rates.

  55. In our case, there really is a shortage of competent mid to junior developers. Part of the issue is that for too many years companies have not been hiring average entry level people and training them up. They all just want “rockstars” that grind out leetcode.

  56. Capitalism is trying hard to commoditise programming skills. They’re key to the future and it wants that labour to be cheap.

  57. What if i tell you that top companies doenst want self taught devs or those from shitty colleges / universities?

  58. ...if these companies are throwing that much money around for new hires... aren't you guys worried about inflation?

  59. i'm surprised how many people don't get the joke. if you say there is a shortage, people get an education. if you get an oversaturation of educated people, they fight over jobs. meaning they will be willing to accept lower wages to gea a job.

  60. I'll easily hire a Go dev or a frontend dev that actually knows how to build maintainable software with adequate testing. Nearly all "senior" frontend / Javascript devs I've worked with in the last decade don't even understand how to use the frameworks they've incorporated (namely redux / Apollo).

  61. I know at my company this is the case. I remember it took us months to find one a few years back (we are big on the company culture so it's not just the skills)

  62. No no. Teams just want perfect candidates and interview teams aren’t consistent between them in understanding the needs.

  63. "Developers" is also a uselessly broad category. There are plenty of niches where there is in fact a shortage. While there is a flood of fresh developers for fields/technology that was "hip" in the last couple of years.

  64. So what you’re telling me is when they keep saying that developers are needed everywhere, what they really mean is they want to flood the market with developers so they can reduce overall wages?

  65. Which is why you should unionize. Then there could be as many of us as we want; and the pay doesnt fucking drop

  66. Do you think that companies are lying and saying "there is a shortage of developers" so that they can do the opposite of what a rational enterprise would do (raising wages) to deal with a shortage?

  67. Bad developers cost the company more than no-developers. So yeah, you say it sarcastically, but it's true. 95% of people apply to my place, and I'm not at a high-level company at all, cannot solve basic programming problems. I do not know how they graduated.

  68. There are a shit ton of us out here, wishing we could work. Hell, pay enough to cover my needs and I'd work, but they won't pay that much.

  69. Over here there is a shortage! Philips and ASML literally hire anyone with a degree because that's all they're getting.

  70. I made it to the 3rd round of interviews with a company, after doing a code test and a zoom interview with the VP. I found out the third round is a live coding interview and I told them no thank you. Do I want to work? Yes. Do I have self respect enough to not subject myself to stupid shit? Also yes.

  71. While they do want to lower wages, there is a shortage of experienced (senior) software engineers. If they want a meme generator they will hire from this sub.

  72. Idk why this sub keeps showing up as something I might be interested in, b/c I'm not a developer of anything, but this meme feels backwards. If companies are low balling anyone (doesn't even need to be a developer,) then the fact that there is a shortage doesn't give the company leverage. It gives the worker leverage. This meme is moronic.

  73. If someone dares to say that there is not a shortage of developers, the only thing clear to me is that this person has never ever been in a managing & recruiting position.

  74. It's quite dire when developers aren't going "I'm inexperienced but I want this lofty sum to work for you" because that's clearly unsustainable and entitled.

  75. I mean, the reason why ppl dont want to work for lower wages is because they are in a position to get more because they are in demand. But yeah, the companies not finding employees are simply not paying enough. Alltough I do think if every company was offering high wages there would not be enough developers to fill every position.

  76. Seriously it is. It is great for me but im rather average one and they want to pay me fuckin mountain of money i feel weird with it. Like it is undeserved.

  77. Actually, there is, at least where I live (Poland). We offered competitive wage (literally went to job boards and calculated average pay for similar positions to have a baseline), nothing very fancy, but a typical pay for Python regular / senior. Fresh grad students would do better. People with "5+ years of experience" struggling with a nested loop in Python or what database indexes are for.

  78. Depends on the country. In Belgium the government is currently paying unemployed people to reschool into IT while IT companies are offering double wages to lure new devs over.

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